Elizabeth Chen, the Senior Executive in Residence at NYU Shanghai, sat down with OCA to discuss the corporate world, life in Far-East Asia, and the challenges women face in the industry. Prior to joining NYU Shanghai, Ms. Chen served as the Managing Director of Goldman Sachs Private Wealth Management until May 2014. Through this conversation Chen opens up about balancing the volatile personal and professional aspects of life, and the addictive exhilaration that characterizes the corporate sector.Could you tell us a little bit about yourself? Where did your career start off and where did your inspiration come from? I could start even earlier than that, because that would explain exactly why I made the choices I did. I was born in Taiwan. When I was eight, my entire family immigrated to Paraguay, so I grew up there speaking Spanish and stayed there until I was 19. By then, I had decided that I really wanted to go to the US for higher education. My first reason for this, coming from a very tropical country, was that I wanted to move to snow. The second reason was that my parents are businessmen, so I’ve always been interested in business or economics. Back then, everything was based off brochures, so I decided to go to the University of Rochester, which is in upstate New York. There was snow, and it had a very good Economics department, where I majored. Of course, within a year I was regretting the amount of snow; but that’s where I ended up meeting my husband, so it was meant to be. I graduated from university and started working at my first job in New York, with Bloomberg. At that point, I got married and we both knew that we wanted to end up in Asia. My husband is Shanghainese-American, and we both felt we actually had a competitive edge in Asia: we understood the Western world, the language, the culture, but also knew the Asian world. Consequently both of us found posts that would send us back to Asia. For me that was with Goldman Sachs. In terms of your education, why did you choose to major in Economics? Did you enjoy it? At school, I enjoyed both micro and macroeconomics, but econometrics was too scientific for me - too much like calculus, and I don’t like calculus. I liked the investing side of it, because of my parents - they built a successful enterprise, and could still make money off of it. However, Economics majors don’t offer many courses on that. I took as many courses as I could that were related to it, such as accounting, so I could learn how to read financial statements. But I still continued with my Economics major, and did pretty well. I think doing well is one of the most important things; it’s what comes out as a GPA and having a good GPA will help your résumé stand out from the rest. On the side, I spent a lot of my time learning about investing on my own. I read the Wall Street Journal, the Financial Times and watched CNBC religiously. When you spend a lot of time on things like that, it’s incredible the amount of knowledge you end up absorbing. So all those things came through in the interviews, and got me my job at Goldman Sachs. You seem to have gained lots of your knowledge from outside of the classroom. How do you think learning inside the classroom compares to gaining real-world knowledge? I have to say that doing well in school is important. I didn't graduate from an Ivy League, but I still got an interview with Goldman Sachs because my GPA was 3.94. Therefore, academics will get you in the door but the moment you get an interview, your résumé becomes irrelevant. What truly matters during an interview is how you perform as a person. That’s really only thing that’s going to stay with the interviewer. How you spend your time outside the classroom is important. I was able to talk about what I had read, or seen, and that was very useful. Did you experience any challenges after moving to Asia with Goldman Sachs? How did that experience start out for you? The ‘cultural shock’ was a lot easier than I expected. Moving from the US back to Asia, I didn’t feel anything. My generation onward are a generation of global citizens, so it was easier. The harder part was the job. I went into private wealth management and I had no idea what that meant. I told my interviewers about my interest in investments, that I love working with people, and that I thought I could deal with people from all backgrounds. They said that sounded like private wealth management. Even though I had many other offers along the way, internally and externally, that was the job I stuck with. I really enjoyed it, because it allowed me to invest, it allowed me to interact with people and manage people’s money. But for private wealth management, you have to build your own clientele base, and I had zero clients. So in that respect, I worked harder than anyone else. Having worked in Hong Kong since 1996, how did you react to the effects of global financial crises? How did you deal with the pressures and uncertainty of the business world? The human reaction to tough situations is to run away. Many involved in the banking sector did that because they couldn't cope with the pressure or they didn't know what to do. I think the reason my clients stayed with me crisis after crisis was because I learned to stay extra close to my clients during the harder times. Even if I didn’t have a solution, I just listened to them. The corporate sector is often criticized for being predominantly male. Do you think that a glass ceiling exists, and if so, how can women overcome it? From my own personal experience, there is no glass ceiling for women. If you are good at what you do and you deliver, the sky's the limit. However, statistically, we have very few senior women in the industry. If you drew up a pyramid, you would have a very wide base - there are plenty of females working as analysts. But at the top, or at the Vice President level, it becomes very thin. And consequently, at the Managing Director level it becomes a stick. I think firms recognize the benefit of diversity, and if you want to have as many clients as possible, you want to have both men and women on your team. But there simply are not enough senior female professionals available for most firms. As a female professional, I think I’m at an advantage because there is a real demand that is yet to be satisfied. It is very competitive and difficult, but the opportunity is there. I know first hand that there are female professionals that have decided not to take on this type of lifestyle, and that is probably the main reason it has become such a triangular pyramid. Could we make it easier for these women to not have to make that choice? At Goldman, they are trying to figure that out every day. In terms of the investment banking ‘lifestyle’, what makes it different from other careers in the corporate world? We have very long hours, so the balance between private life and work is always an issue. This is not an issue that is directly linked to women: I think men also wish to spend more time with their children. In these instances, I think it’s very important to prioritize ruthlessly. It’s exhilarating when you are in the thick of it. The adrenaline rush is better than anything else. Some people go on roller coasters, but if you’re working, you’re on a roller-coaster all the time. But the competition is not for everyone. For me, I blended the line between work life and personal life. I consider my work life to also be my personal life. I enjoy my work so much that going to work is an indulgence for me. For example, I would definitely take time to go on vacation with my family and my children, but after that I have to work to feel relaxed. But now, my family comes first. After I decided to retire, I’ve had more time, so I’ve had to reprioritize my life. As China grows in terms of its economy, what are the kind of opportunities that China brings? How does this change the way that businesses run in China? There’s a saying in China that translates to “the time, the location and the people” - you need all these three to make things work. You don’t have control over time; that is, when you live in terms of history. You don’t have control of the location either. However, you do have more control of the people. In a globalized society, you need a little bit more control, but where you are is predetermined. You could be bright a hundred years ago, but you would not have the same opportunities as you have today, in Shanghai right now. We are so lucky to be sitting here, in Shanghai, at this moment in history when China is growing so rapidly. The opportunities are just so abundant. The only place in the U.S. that is relatively similar would be Silicon Valley. My old colleagues in New York or Europe - they look at me with envy, because business is booming in Asia and so much wealth is being created. For them, their economy is stagnant - especially in Europe. There hasn’t been as much growth. Even though they are working very hard, they’re constantly thinking about how to get their share of the pie from other people. For us, our pie is growing so fast, we cannot hire enough people to actually go after the opportunities. That was the problem. At NYU Shanghai, you act as a liaison between our students and the corporate world. If you were to explain your role to an incoming NYU Shanghai student, how would you describe it? NYU is the most innovative university to have engaged with the idea of a global network university. I first met John Sexton when he was trying to get NYU Shanghai off the ground. The students here are very lucky to be a part of such a leading school. I think we have great faculty, but, in terms of what I can do for the students here is that I want to bring real-world experiences and feedback to the students. I want to bring a lens through which students can see past the academic world and into the real world - which is where you’re all going to be after here, or even between semesters. Not only am I willing to share my own personal experiences, but I have many connections within the business world. Going forward, on a monthly basis, I will bring in people from different corporate cultures and various industries. Hopefully, the students can connect with these people and you’ll be equipped with numerous perspectives about the business world, instead of simply talking to individuals within an academic setting. This article was written by Alhan Fakhr and Bella Farr. Send an email to [email protected] to get in touch. Photo Credit: Tirza Alberta